Norman Hill House, Cam

Have a photo of old Dursley to share? Post here to see if anyone can add anything.
davegoldsmith
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by davegoldsmith » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:43 pm

Well done yet again Andy, could not believe my eyes when I saw this latest photo it brings back so many memories of my childhood and the fun times we had in there. Like I said in my earlier posts the tower was defo square. On one of your earlier photos it does show a round smaller building to the left. Cant quite make out what the white is at the base of the tower. Once again well done Andy. :D
Dave

Rich Hughes
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by Rich Hughes » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:49 pm

Hi Dave, It looks like that white bit is part of the top of the tower that has fallen down. Good pic though eh!

davegoldsmith
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by davegoldsmith » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:58 pm

Yes you could be right Rich. It looked to me that there was another building previously joined to the tower with the inside white washed then demolished but I can't remember this, Dave

ken
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by ken » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:49 pm

There was a Hiram Hague who died 30 June 1879 in Istanbul. Was this Major Hague's father?
The exit from the garden via the archway to the meadow is shown on the 1903 map. I believe that the part wall to the right of the tower photo is the end wall of what I earlier called cow sheds, but I've spoken to someone else who remembers it as a pig sty, I can't remember it being used while I was there.

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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by dursleyglos » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:39 pm

Thanks for that Ken - I would be very surprised it it wasn't Major Hague's father although I haven't found any references to him yet. Also, all the people I've spoken to mention that the buildings and sheds around the tower were pig stys rather than cow sheds which ties up with your findings. Andy.
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by dursleyglos » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:46 pm

I've just been looking through my local directory for 1904 and have found the following entries. The first reports the death of Elizabeth Winterbotham, wife of Arthur Brend Winterbotham and mother of Emily Page.

OBITUARY - MRS. A. B. WINTERBOTHAM.
"There is a proverb which says 'It never rains unless it pours,' and in this year of bereavements Cam people may be forgiven for a belief in the truth of it. Mrs. A. B. Winterbotham, of Norman Hill, beloved by the villagers as no ordinary lady could be endeared to them, and highly respected throughout the locality, passed from this life on the morning of July 15th. The deceased lady was called away as it were at a moment's notice, without time to say goodbye to all the members of her family, and the sad news, all so sudden, cast a gloom over Cam. It was known that her health was giving rise to alarm, but she was driven out the day before her death, for which heart affection was responsible. Mrs. Winterbotham was the widow of the late Mr. A. B. Winterbotham, M.P., and on Tuesday the 19th of July, her remains were laid beside those of her husband in a vault at Stroud cemetery. The deceased lady was 63 years of age, and had survived her husband 12 years."

The second reports the marriage of Emily Page. The timing of her mother's death must have been a real shock, given that she married Hiram Hague the following month. The wedding is reported as below:

MARRIAGE OF MISS WINTERBOTHAM.
"Numerous were the well wishes to Miss Emily Page Winterbotham when, on Monday, August 29th, she became the wife of Mr. Hiram Hague, of the Daira Sanieh of H.H. Khedive's Govt. The recent death of the bride's mother prevented festivity, but so popular is the lady that the people crowded to Cam Church to shower their good wishes. The service, conducted by the Vicar (Rev. E. T. Griffiths), was of a simple character. There were no bridesmaids nor best man, and the bride, given away by her elder brother (Mr. A. S. Winterbotham), was attired in a white dress with black hat. Wedding hymns were sung, and the organist (Mr. E. Jenner Higgins) played appropriate music. The wedded pair left shortly after the ceremony for the honeymoon in Scotland. They are now residing at their future home, Norman Hill, Dursley."

The Khedive was a title used by the ruler of Egypt from 1867 until 1914 governing as a viceroy of the Sultan of Turkey and the Daira Sanieh was one of his vast estates in Egypt. It seems that Hiram obviously played a part in the Khedive's Government. I wonder how he came to meet Emily Page!

Another little piece of the puzzle! Andy
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by dursleyglos » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:21 pm

Some more census information for Norman Hill House, this time from the 1901 census.

ELIZABETH WINTERBOTHAM, Head of household, widow, aged 59, born Cam
EMILY P. WINTERBOTHAM, daughter, aged 35, born Cam

They had a number of staff working for them.

ALICE A. BURBRIDGE, cook, aged 25, born Amesbury, Wilts
EDITH L. GIBBS, sewing maid, aged 24, born Wroughton, Wilts
EDITH A. CHIVERS, parlour maid, aged 21, born Marlborough, Wilts
EMILY L. KENT, housemaid, aged 19, born Wroughton, Wilts
VIRGINIA E. COLLIER, between maid, aged 17, born Wroughton, Wilts

Interesting that all their staff came from Wiltshire although they had all gone by the next census in 1911.
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by dursleyglos » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:20 pm

I've just found out that in 1934 Hiram Hague of Norman Hill (aged 57) travelled in 1st Class accommodation from Palma to London on the steamship S.S. Burma. Andy
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Rich Hughes
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by Rich Hughes » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:17 pm

Andy, Bert (from the Bahamas) has seen your latest pic and now agrees it was square, so all that said the tower was round have now gone square.

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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by Rich Hughes » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:21 pm

I would like to point out that I knew the tower was or is square, but did wonder if the round tower that was mentioned was the one in the pics (next to the square one) and that maybe it had as interesting a story to tell.

davegoldsmith
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by davegoldsmith » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:06 pm

Something still bothers me about the tower/castle's age. Have been down there today to have a good look around at the end of the wall furthest from the tower there is a very very old tree growing on top of the wall this means the wall was built before the tree started growing. On one of Andy's previous photos it shows the house with the surrounding trees very mature so to me it seems the trees were there well before the house was built, i.e. the tower was built well before the house, hope this makes sense. Also if the wall was built at the same time as the tower how come it's not joined you can see there is a slight gap. My thinking is that the tower was there first then the adjoining wall was built, then the house many years later and occupied the tower for reasons mentioned in previous posts. This brings me back to my original question how old is the tower and what was its original purpose? Dave

ken
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by ken » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:52 pm

in the 1841 census Norman Hill House is occupied by a family of four, admittedly of independent means. in 1851 and 1861 it is occupied by a gardener and his family, a different one on each occasion. It isn't until 1871 and beyond that the Winterbothams have moved in and are listed with servants. To be identified as Norman Hill House and not just another house in Tilsdown it must have some status or significance. Why then was it used by small family groups? Was the house greatly extended between 1861 and 1871? or were the gardeners acting as 'house sitters' while the owners were away on census night ?

Rich Hughes
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by Rich Hughes » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:42 pm

It is written that Arthur Winterbotham built a house there, it is likely another house was there before. The tower in my opinion was built up against the wall, it is possible it was the other way round but that tree on the other end you talk about wasn't that big when I was a teenager (I USED TO CLIMB IT)also the wall was not so damaged then, Being that the tower overlooks Cam Mills and the cricket pitch, both owned by the Winterbothams, tells me they put it there to keep an eye on their interests!
Last edited by Rich Hughes on Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by dursleyglos » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:57 pm

Hi Rich, can you elaborate on where you've seen it written that Arthur Winterbotham built the house as I've never seen any references to that. I believe he moved there with his wife after they were married in 1863 and the house does seem older than that. Andy
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Rich Hughes
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Re: Norman Hill House, Cam

Post by Rich Hughes » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:03 pm

I will TRY and find where I read that Andy. I have found one of the sites (a brief mention). Type in Arthur Brend Winterbotham, then click on Wikipedia.There is another site that says it was built in the 1880's (can't find it at mo!). It has been said that he lived for a time at Brooklands House, at the front of Cam Mills. Maybe that's where they lived while the estate was constructed.

I would like to believe the Tower was older but cannot see that it is, that tree growing in the wall is no more than 150 years old. On the photo of the Winterbotham cricket team the House looks weathered denoting that it was quite old so it must easily pre date 1880.

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